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Panorama of the Grand Canyon.
The National Park Service is losing $450,000 a day in entrance fees and other revenue thanks to the Republican shutdown, but that's just the tip of the iceberg in park-related economic shutdown losses. The communities surrounding national parks will suffer, too, to the tune of $30 million a day.

With vacationers banned from the parks, they won't pass through towns by park entrances. That means business lost for hotels and restaurants, grocery stores, supply stores and more.

"It means jobs and it means less income for working families here in Maine," said Christopher Fogg, executive director of the Bar Harbor Chamber of Commerce. Two million tourists pass through Bar Harbor on their way to Acadia National Park every year. Businesses there have already had a tough 2013, he said, as budget cuts forced Arcadia to close its park loop road to vehicular traffic for a month, from April 15 to May 15. Fogg said that a survey of the chamber's members found that the closure caused them to lose about 30 percent of their expected business for that month.

The prospect of potentially losing October visitors is even more discouraging, he said, as October is one of the most popular months at the park, with 300,000 visitors coming last October for the fall leaves. "This is a great time to be in Bar Harbor," Fogg said. "Everyone should be in the park enjoying the foliage."

It's not just Acadia with its foliage; according to a former superintendent of the Blue Ridge Parkway, "To have it happen in October is like closing a shopping mall at Christmas time."

That Republicans don't care about furloughed park service workers or park revenues is no surprise. Families who vacation at parks rather than on yachts are also not traditionally at the top of the Republican priority list. But we're talking about businesses here! Republicans are supposed to worship them ... except, the businesses that will be hit hardest by $30 million a day in localized losses are mostly going to be small ones, and while a lot of Republican rhetoric focuses on small business, their actual policies are all about the huge corporations. So the fact that they're willing to let these communities and businesses suffer is no huge surprise, if you're paying attention to what they do rather than what they say.

Originally posted to Laura Clawson on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 10:20 AM PDT.

Also republished by In Support of Labor and Unions and Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Those "gateway" villages (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ed in Montana, earthling1

    are as red as it gets. What ye sow, so shall ye reap, cretins.

    •  Like Bar Harbor, ME (14+ / 0-)

      which voted 75% for Obama. That's as red as it gets?

      It's true that a lot of rural communities vote Republican. Hell, I live in one much to my dismay. But rather than belittle them perhaps there's a chance to change some minds about Republicans in the future?

      Spite is the ranch dressing Republicans slather on their salad of racism

      by ontheleftcoast on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 10:54:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I live in one of those "gateway" villages (10+ / 0-)

      that also supports the largest US Marine Corps base in the world. My town is facing utter devastation.

      I suggest you keep the cretin crap to yourself.

    •  I'm sitting here in Groveland CA (8+ / 0-)

      The few tourists that started to come back after the Rim Fire are gone again. Businesses around here have lost almost an entire season of revenue.

      The community is surprisingly purple, overall, given that many of the residents are retirees and vacation-home owners from the Bay Area.


      "They let 'em vote, smoke, and drive -- even put 'em in pants! So what do you get? A -- a Democrat for President!" ~ Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!

      by craiger on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 01:34:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Wrong (6+ / 0-)

      Larimer County, Colorado

      Home to Estes Park, gateway to RMNP.

      I'm on a mission! Testing the new site rules.

      by blue aardvark on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 01:39:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  San Francisco (5+ / 0-)

      Gateway to the Golden Gate National Recreation Area (Muir Woods famous for Redwoods, Point Reyes National Park, Alcatraz, hundreds of Beaches, etc., etc.  With over 2 million visitors a year).  Yeah right, a real red town.  Plus the central transportation node for eight huge National Parks (Yosemite, Pinnacles, Sequoia, Kings Canyon, Lassen, GGNRA, Mt. Shasta, the Humboldt Redwoods parks, plus a huge complex of other federal monuments like Lava Beds.

      "It's too LATE to stop now!" - John Lee Hooker

      by Rolfyboy6 on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 01:47:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Big Island of Hawaii, Maui, Oahu (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Truedelphi, BlackSheep1

      Muana Loa, Kiluea, and all the other Volcano National Parks.  Mt. Haleakula on Maui, Punchbowl National Cemetery in Honolulu. Pearl Harbor monuments.

      Yessir, Hawaii a real red state.  No, we aren't a foreign country.

      "It's too LATE to stop now!" - John Lee Hooker

      by Rolfyboy6 on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 01:51:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Why is Mt. Haleakula closed? (0+ / 0-)

        I've driven to the top of it.  Did it in the car I rented.  Started out at 4am so I could see the stars before sunrise.

        Never saw a single person on the drive up.  Went all the way into the park without ever meeting a gov't worker.  Drove back down by myself also, after we were done at the top.  The only place I ever saw a park employee was inside the gift shop.  So don't open the gift shop, who cares?

        Same at the bottom of the mountain.  Hiked up to the waterfalls, didn't need a gov't employee to do it.  Swam in the pools, again without help from anyone.

        Parks are already open.  It costs money to keep them closed and keep people out.  So a gov't shutdown closing national parks is actually pure bullshit.  Let the people in and don't worry about it.

        •  People like you die in Hawaii all the time (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Dvalkure, Miggles, BlackSheep1

          Usually from stupidity and doing the exact wrong things. Like you they think they are on a Disneyland ride.

          "It's too LATE to stop now!" - John Lee Hooker

          by Rolfyboy6 on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 02:07:04 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yeah, I saw the signs (0+ / 0-)

            "Danger, steep cliff"

            My wife and I were joking about it, that everytime some idiot fell off a cliff, the next day a park ranger hiked up and put up a new sign.

            So the new signs can go up after the gov't reopens.  The entire two mile hike uphill, there wasn't a single park ranger making sure people didn't die from being stupid.  Whether the gov't was open or closed that day made absolutely no difference.

            If I was going to fall off a cliff, I would have.  No one from the gov't was there to save me, so what are you talking about?

    •  Huh? Have you ever been (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      To Northern California?

      Offer your heart some Joy every day of your life, and spread it along to others.

      by Truedelphi on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 01:54:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  speaking from Bar Harbor (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BlackSheep1, craiger

      You can take back that 'cretin' and the red label.

      We are a hotbed of artists/craftspeople, retirees and liberals - this whole area is bluer than blue and I bet most other 'gateway' communities are, too.

       I just spoke to a low level park worker who is unhappily idle, can't leave and go elsewhere because she is under contract for the season and trying not to spend money while she is not earning any.

       Motels and hotels are talking about closing a month early if this goes on much longer.

       Cruise ships are not coming into Bar Harbor because of this.

       The park is closed because they can't rescue folks that fall off the rocks ( something that happens alot ! )

       We live in a beautiful place. It stays beautiful because it is a national park. We pay for living in a beautiful place by sharing it with visitors.

       All this will impact ordinary working folk soonest and deepest. Your lack of kindness and judgementalism is nasty.

      “Good things don’t come to those who wait. They come to those who agitate!” Julian Bond

      by Dvalkure on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 02:56:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  hey, runfastandwin: how about YOU have (0+ / 0-)

      a nice warm cup of STFU, cabrón inútil estúpido?

      LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

      by BlackSheep1 on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:22:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I heard Tim Kaine today on MJ (14+ / 0-)

    talking about he had heard from constituents in Chincateague, a small town on the Eastern Shore of Virginia that revolves around the National Park there and how this shut down pretty much decimates their whole economic survival chain.

    I'm sure there are many similar communities around the country. And yet you had that Republican jerk Congressman say, "This is what I call fun!" I hope he hears from each and every person affected by the shutdown in his district and then I hope he really has some fun trying to keep his seat. Sorry I can't recall then name right now.

    “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR

    by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 10:29:50 AM PDT

  •  Almost all in Red States, too (0+ / 0-)


  •  The GOP's mission is to wreak havoc (3+ / 0-)

    and destruction then blame it on Democrats. While the winger media will support their alternate reality, I think most of the rest of the country is aware of how ridiculous it is to blame Dems when the R's are celebrating the closure as some kind of weird success. Insisting on defunding Obamacare while it rolls out anyway is backfiring big time as people realize the funding they're holding up has nothing to do with it & is just hurting everyone.

    This is perfect.

    "Compassion is the radicalism of our time." ~ Tenzin Gyatso, 14th Dalai Lama -7.88, -6.21

    by Siri on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 10:42:38 AM PDT

  •  My town is taking a double hit from the shutdown. (11+ / 0-)

    In addition to being the home to Joshua Tree National Park we are host to the largest Marine Corps base in the world. Every marine who has been sent to the Middle East has trained here.

    It is very unusual to have a military presence as well as a National Park in one town, and the first Gulf War almost wiped out the town as the marines deployed and left local merchants high and dry for months on end.

    This will be so much worse.

    Instead of celebrating the suffering of American citizens our energy might be better spent urging our representatives to end the shutdown.

  •  28 weddings cancelled in the Smoky Mtns. Park (11+ / 0-)

    They were scheduled for this weekend and next.  Just sad.  

    Nothing fixes a thing so intensely in the memory as the wish to forget it. - Michel de Montaigne

    by Sandy on Signal on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 01:33:05 PM PDT

  •  For one example, Estes Park, which was (9+ / 0-)

    devastated by the Colorado Floods, is also the gateway to Rocky Mountain National Park.

    The road repairs are being delayed, and the Park is closed. Smooth move, House GOP. Way to show how much you care.

    I'm on a mission! Testing the new site rules.

    by blue aardvark on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 01:35:05 PM PDT

    •  And importantly, aren't firefighters furloughed? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      California is as dry as tinder. Without firefighters, we could be in  in a heap of trouble, followed by being in a heap of rubble.

      My understanding is the Firefighters for the National Parks and Forests, as well as the folks in the lookout towers, have all been sent home!

      Offer your heart some Joy every day of your life, and spread it along to others.

      by Truedelphi on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 01:57:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Get a load of this (8+ / 0-)

    Northern VA is getting creamed by the shutdown, and Ken Cuccinelli is suddenly having a bad time explaining it all to his prospective constituents. A former aide to Dennis Hastert says Cuccinelli should call Boehner and tell him to stop it.

  •  $30 million per day is hard to believe (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    How did they come up with that figure?

    Through early morning fog I see visions of the things to be the pains that are withheld for me I realize and I can see...

    by Keith930 on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 01:38:31 PM PDT

  •  Meanwhile the ACA exchanges are overwhelmed (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blue aardvark, Rolfyboy6, BlackSheep1

    with people signing on to obtain insurance.....

  •  In my area (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blue aardvark, Rolfyboy6

    West Point has announced suspension of their sports program. Army home football games pump big bucks into our local economy.

    Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen lytlað

    by milkbone on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 01:43:37 PM PDT

  •  All of Death Valley NPs roads (5+ / 0-)

    Except for California 190 are closed, just at the start of the Fall-Winter tourist season.

    The  repubs are a bunch of criminals.

    "I come close to despair because so many of the pieces of the country are broken, and when you see that, you have two choices: You can give up, or you can do something about it." Elizabeth Warren

    by Ed in Montana on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 01:43:51 PM PDT

    •  Why? The roads are still there. (0+ / 0-)

      Do the roads in Death Valley physically vanish during a gov't shutdown?  No, they're still there, in the exact same condition they were yesterday.  So why can't people drive on them with their own cars?

      Why does the gov't have to spend a dime of money to allow a private citizen to travel through public lands in a private vehicle, on an already built road?

      •  Right (0+ / 0-)

        So what happens when they breakdown in Death Valley?  When all emergency services are closed?  Who's supposed to handle accidents?  Public safety?  Ever been to Death Valley, Norm?

        "It's too LATE to stop now!" - John Lee Hooker

        by Rolfyboy6 on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 02:00:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  They call a tow truck (0+ / 0-)

          And P.S., this is just the federal gov't.  So you're saying that if a motorist got into trouble, California state troopers can't handle it?

          Sorry, but I side with freedom over public safety each and every time.  I don't need NSA spying or the patriot act to "keep me safe".  And I don't need the federal gov't to babysit me if I choose to drive myself through death valley.

          Stop treating adults like children.  People should be able to take care of themselves.

          •  Dummy (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Dvalkure, BlackSheep1

            The tow trucks are from the NPS.  Death Valley is a desert far from any place.You really are stupid.

            "It's too LATE to stop now!" - John Lee Hooker

            by Rolfyboy6 on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 02:11:47 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Is all desert land in a national park? (0+ / 0-)

              I can look on a map and find lots of open desert land that isn't inside of a national park.  So what happens when someone breaks down in one of those places?  They're just left to die without an NPS tow truck to save them?

              Whatever aid makes it to them can make it to Death Valley during a gov't shutdown.

              •  Then yes... call the cops. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                All major roads are patrolled by city, state, county patrolls. That's not the case in a place like Death Valley. If not for the NPS, nobody of authority is out there. Yes, there might be fellow travelers... might not be.

                You're going to look really silly dialing your cell phone with no coverage, and nobody to call.

                And if the weather is bad, things get deadly very quickly... They don't call it Death Valley for fun.

                Freedom isn't free. That's why we pay taxes.

                by walk2live on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 02:49:05 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Then don't go to Death Valley (0+ / 0-)

                  I don't know if you're going to read this or not, but I wanted to say one thing to you, based on your sig.

                  Freedom isn't free. That's why we pay taxes.
                  Yes I pay taxes so that the gov't can provide for public safety.  But in so doing, I did not give the gov't absolute authority to be my babysitter.  Just because I pay for police or park rangers doesn't mean I'm now forbidden to go beyond the bounds of civilization.  That I'm forbidden to take any sort of risk lest I get myself into trouble.  That is NOT what I pay taxes for.

                  Anyone who isn't prepared to take a risk should absolutely stay out of Death Valley.  But those who want to accept the risk shouldn't be banned from Death Valley just because a park ranger isn't there to babysit.

                  •  You can go anywhere you wish... (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Norm in Chicago

                    If you want to go walking in the wilderness for a 5 months stretch, you can do that. You don't need special permission, or a permit. You don't have to tell anyone. I've done it - twice... hence my moniker - walk2live.

                    The reason you can do that is because we have a huge amount of public lands in this country - owned by you and me. And with that ownership comes responsibility... Yes, it costs money to maintain access to those lands, and to protect them.

                    Before I did these long hikes, I was a self-described Libertarian. But, afterwards, I came to realize the tremendous value of the commons. We have a treasure in this country in our public lands... If these lands were carved-up and owned privately, it would be a tradgedy. Entire ecosystems woudl be lost to whatever can make people a quick buck. And it really would be impossible to "go somewhere wild" - everything would be fenced-off. The wilderness experiences I had would be impossible.

                    Today, I can drive down a forest road, park and camp for nothing - totally legally. Why? Because it's my land.

                    So, you might say, fine... but why pay money to forest rangers, BLM land managers and the like? Because there is a ton of financial pressure on many people to break the law. Look at countries with weak protections for their public lands - illegal logging and mining is rampant. And when it's completely unregulated, it's especially destructive - pollution, poaching and other crimes come with the territory.

                    With freedom comes responsibility, and it's our responsibility to take care of what we have. And that costs money.

                    Freedom isn't free. That's why we pay taxes.

                    by walk2live on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 09:02:10 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I still want a National Park Service (0+ / 0-)

                      I want public lands, I want illegal logging and mining bans.  I want the roads and facilities maintained.  And they will be.

                      My point is only valid for the duration of the gov't shutdown. The road is still there, and just because the rangers are off duty for a couple weeks doesn't mean the parks should be completely closed to the public, zero access.

                      The people arguing with me in this thread disagree with you.  They want everything fenced off and for it to be  impossible to "go somewhere wild".  Via the comments I got, everyone must be babysat and they expect anyone who is more than 5 feet from a ranger will fall off a cliff or otherwise get themselves killed.  Parks must be closed while rangers are off duty in the name of public safety.

                      Am I only allowed to go somewhere wild if accompanied by a ranger?  If not, why does the shutdown matter?

          •  Yeah, and stop telling those companies they (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Rolfyboy6, BlackSheep1

            can't put lead or arsenic in their paint. Savvy consumers will figure it out and not buy them! And who needs speed limits on roads?! Pfft! Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly? Am I right?! Why let's get rid of every regulation and rule! They're obviously just keeping us safe from ourselves! WOOT! Party like it's 1699 but with internet porn!

            Spite is the ranch dressing Republicans slather on their salad of racism

            by ontheleftcoast on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 02:17:58 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Do you only drive the speed limit when watched? (0+ / 0-)

              The discussion is why the parks can't be open during a shutdown.  That doesn't make rules and regulations magically vanish, they're all still there.

              To you, does the speed limit and safe driving concerns just vanish for you whenever a police officer isn't watching you?

              If you're driving an empty road late at night, and you KNOW there isn't a cop for miles, that means drive 150mph right?

              •  And I'm the only car on the road? (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                bryduck, BlackSheep1

                Sorry, but the regulations you're so afraid of aren't there to protect me from myself. They're there to protect me from the morans driving 150 mph because they don't see a cop or the company that hopes it can use that moldy bag of peanuts in the next batch of peanut butter.

                Spite is the ranch dressing Republicans slather on their salad of racism

                by ontheleftcoast on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 02:38:57 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Where did I say I don't like regulations? (0+ / 0-)

                  You're using regulations in the wrong way.  You give examples of regulations that are there to protect the public.

                  But how are you personally harmed by someone going for a hike in a national park without a park ranger present?  How does that pollute your ground water or poison your food?

                  Why do you insist on regulating the actions of others when it doesn't affect you?

      •  You really want to get stuck (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Rolfyboy6, BlackSheep1

        in the middle of Death Valley with no way to get help? Maybe you haven't been there... I'm not sure, but it's quite remote & desolate. Roads don't function well without policing/patrolling. It's a matter of safety.

        Freedom isn't free. That's why we pay taxes.

        by walk2live on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 02:01:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Then smile for the NSA (0+ / 0-)

          The internet is just another road, and there's a whole bunch of people in the gov't who think you can't be allowed to surf the net without the NSA recording every single thing you do.

          It's a matter of safety.  You can be treated like a child, or an adult, it's your choice.

          •  Ok, maybe we should just get rid of all the cops (0+ / 0-)

            on the interstates... Heck, you know what you're getting into right? We're all adults.

            That's what the National Park Service does on roads like those in Death Valley. Those roads are not patrolled by the county or state troopers.

            Car breaks down in Death Valley? Tough luck... what a bummer - you knew what you were getting into afterall. Oh, and there is no cell coverage out there. Hopefully someone will come by in a week or two to retrieve your dessicated corpse.

            By your logic, we don't need cops on any roads at all. What could possibly go wrong?

            Freedom isn't free. That's why we pay taxes.

            by walk2live on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 02:46:02 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  We don't need nearly as many (0+ / 0-)

              The cops really aren't out there to protect and serve, not anymore.  Now they're out there to hand out tickets and to bust pot smokers, to keep the prision industrial complex full.

              We don't need 80% of the cops we have, and yes, we can let people drive through Death Valley and let them assume the risk if they so choose.  No one is forced to go there.

              •  Next time you need a cop (0+ / 0-)

                and they're all busy... remember what you wrote.

                Handing out tickets is their job. I'm thrilled when I see someone get pulled-over for driving recklessly.

                Busting pot smokers is also their job... at least in 48 states. If you don't like that, lobby to change the law, don't blame cops for enforcing it. And lobbying to change the law does work - just ask the people in Washington & Colorado.

                Maybe you should get out of Chicago more. I grew up there, but moved out west when I got older. It's a wonderful city... but one thing I've realized is that most people I grew up with don't value public lands, nor have a deep understanding as to how they work. You have to drive nearly a full day from Chicago to get somewhere wild.

                There are plenty of places people can go to get their fill of self-responsibility in the Wilderness. Indeed, one of those places is Death Valley. A good friend of mine hiked the length of it through the backcountry. But, he knew what he was doing, and knew what he was getting into - he had to make a conscious effort to do what he did. He knew there was no help coming if he got hurt. However, people who drive roads into a place like Death Valley don't have that expectation... they don't have food & water they might need if they run out of gas, or the car overheats. If you want a place like Death Valley to "stay open", fine - but the roads ought to be closed. My guess is that if you want to walk into the backcountry in Death Valley, there will be nobody to stop you - have a super time.

                Freedom isn't free. That's why we pay taxes.

                by walk2live on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 08:49:54 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I do forest preserve restoration as a hobby (0+ / 0-)

                  I'm actually in the Chicago burbs, so I'm close to a few forest preserves.  I go on hikes and also volunteer with the restoration groups.  We're doing great work on the prairie and oak savanna restorations.  I love public lands.

                  In the dozens of times I've gone for a hike in the woods, not once have I come across a County employee.  County employees don't need to be present for people to enjoy the forest preserves.  And if the County gov't was on shutdown, there's no reason to close the preserves, not one.  My point still stands.

      •  Because fools like you would sneak into the parks (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

         get hurt and then sue the government for lack of supervision.

  •  Hey, we have the NDAA, so (0+ / 0-)

    Let's put those mythical FEMA camps all the tea baggers fret about to good use hosting the Teabagistan caucus. We can make them real comfortable by playing R&B music and showing them re-runs of the Jeffersons and the Cosby Show.

    I'm far more afraid of these freaks than anyone on hunger strike in Gitmo.

    I'm just Double Tapped the hell out.

    by pajoly on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 01:46:55 PM PDT

  •  Land doesn't cost money to keep open (0+ / 0-)

    I have absolutely no idea why national parks are closed during a gov't shutdown.  Parks are natural land, in mostly a natural state.  Nature doesn't cost money to operate.  The land is still there, the trees are still there, they didn't go anywhere.

    I don't need a paid park ranger to drive or hike through a park, I can do it on my own just fine.  I've hiked through state parks and county forest preserves and never met a single person on gov't payroll.

    Now are there maintainance costs for roads and buildings?  Sure.  But things don't fall apart overnight.  All that needs to be done is lock up whatever buildings there are, post a sign saying "No ranger on duty, hike at your own risk", and leave it at that.

    Why does the gov't have to be operating to let a person take their car or their own two feet and go through public natural lands?

    Nothing about this story makes a damn bit of sense.

    •  Norm, Norm, Norm (0+ / 0-)

      You've never been to a National Park have you?  You think these places are "land" don't you, like say a Chicago cornfield? National Parks by their nature are not places for effete sofa warriors.

      "It's too LATE to stop now!" - John Lee Hooker

      by Rolfyboy6 on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 02:03:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's a matter of safety (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Rolfyboy6, Dvalkure

      (expanding above comment)

      The first person who "hikes at their own risk", and then there's nobody to call upon when disaster falls... ya, that'll go really well.

      A lot of people get lost, get injured, and die in our national parks even with rangers on-call. It'll be far worse without anyone there.

      I'm not saying that we need to live in a nanny state - there are plenty of Wilderness Areas that never have anyone "on call", but people who visit National Parks aren't generally prepared for a true wilderness experience - they're driving on a road, on a family vacation.

      Freedom isn't free. That's why we pay taxes.

      by walk2live on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 02:06:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  But it takes money for the people (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Rolfyboy6, BlackSheep1

      Who is going to pick up the trash?
      Clean the toilets?
      Help the tourists find the trails or more importantly find the tourists that get lost on them?

      There is more to a national park than the scenery, a lot more.

      Spite is the ranch dressing Republicans slather on their salad of racism

      by ontheleftcoast on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 02:08:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Can't people clean up after themselves? (0+ / 0-)

        Doesn't it breed an sense of complacency to tell people to just dump their trash without thinking, because someone else will just clean it up?  People in a national park should carry out their own trash.  I've always done so on my hikes.

        Clean the toilets?  Put up a sign saying toilets closed.  My best hikes were always away from the areas with toilets anyway.

        Lost tourists?  That's what GPS phones are for, and there's still State police right?

        I think the parks are closed just to make people mad.  It's not about public safety.

        •  Norm, when you look in the mirror, can you see (0+ / 0-)

          the giant sign behind you with the blinky lights?

          LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

          by BlackSheep1 on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:36:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  But if you have an accident (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      while driving through a park, or while hiking on one of the trails, you'll probably want somebody to come to your aid.  Sorry, park rangers and other employees are the ones who do that.

      Maintaining the highways, cleaning the restrooms, and so on -- same story.  Stranded by a sudden October snowfall, and you want some help?

      When we get out into "the wild", sometimes even Democrats like to imagine we're in a "we-don't-need-no-stinkin'-government" world, but it doesn't really work that way.

    •  Um...are you being serious here? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Norm in Chicago

      There are these things called Park Rangers, whose job it is to maintain and monitor the parks. They are the stewards of them. They also have to act as cops and be on the lookout for unsavory people doing unsavory things. Have you ever BEEN to an NPS park area? There are more than just pretty mountains. There are fragile ecosystems and historic artifacts that looters and vandals could snatch if there were no rangers to be on the lookout. We would suffer not only ecologicallly but culturally as well. You can't go back in time to replace Native American rock carvings from 500 years ago if some asshole just decides to spray paint on top of it. Not to mention the trash and litter that would pile up REAL FAST with nobody around to clean it up. Or how about some racist fanatic who decides he wants to light a torch to Booker T. Washington's house or the Tuskegee Institute?

      Yes, the big parks are famous for hiking and recreation, but there's PLENTY more to all the 400+ park units than just that and they require CARE.

      "Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission." -- Eleanor Roosevelt

      by terabthia2 on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 02:22:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Yes. So what? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Norm in Chicago

    Pardon my cold and cynical attitude, but bringing more people to the party seems like a good thing for the millions of people who have been left twisting in the economic wind.

    I believe that one big reason so many people are now convinced that they will never work again, or never work at a decent job or never work full-time is that too many folks happily bought into the "we avoided a depression" meme and turned away from the now-embarrassing victims of the economic collapse.  No "We're in this together" but, "Be patient. Rome wasn't built in a day. Stop whining" if acknowledged at all.  In short, collateral damage.

    The more we're all in this together, the more pressure to raise us all out.

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 01:51:03 PM PDT

  •  Yellow Stone (5+ / 0-)

    My friend works at a hotel outside of Yellowstone National Park. He says that tourists are mad! Especially the foreign travelers. Imagine traveling all the way from China to find out park was closed? So many people have cancelled hotel reservations. His employer says if this continues, he will have to let people go...

  •  See my sig line: (0+ / 0-)

    "The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

    by Lily O Lady on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 02:00:10 PM PDT

  •  There is no way to overstate (0+ / 0-)

    My dislike for the current Republican Party and their blind followers.  As long as we tote the baggage of their political agenda we will fail to progress as a civilization.

    "The bass player is always right"

    by BigOkie on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 02:01:05 PM PDT

  •  I made it over to Acadia for the first time... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Rolfyboy6, Dvalkure, BlackSheep1

    a few months back.  First trip to Maine.  What a gorgeous place.  Granted, that island isn't ALL national park, but we did see quite a bit that we would not have been able to see if it was shutdown at the time.

    I would have been super pissed if I had traveled all the way over there from PDX to find out it was closed.  By extension, I am not super pissed that other people are experiencing that very scenario (but maybe not coming from PDX).

    The Tea Party has been desperate to incite a revolt among the populace, but they might just get it from the same people they've been trying to crap on for the last few years.

    Enough is enough.

    •  I am NOW (0+ / 0-)

      ugh.. I hate that spelling error because I do it all the damn time.

    •  Speaking of Acadia, is it even possible to close (0+ / 0-)

      it?  It's hardly what I would call isolated wilderness, say compared to the Grand Canyon, Yosemite, Big Bend, etc.  It's kind of a hodgepodge of towns, neighborhoods, and park land all non-contiguously mingled together.  There must be hundreds of trailheads that enter park land and are completely ungated.  If I remember correctly the NPS is trying to acquire private lands that are technically within the park boundaries, but that is going to take a long time.  It's definitely a different feeling national park compared to the major parks out west.

  •  Estes Park in Colorado is being devastated (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Rolfyboy6, BlackSheep1

    by the shutdown.

    They were reeling from the Front Range floods and the loss of roads and now federal recovery efforts are stymied and Rocky Mountain National Park has been closed.  A lot of businesses are going to be wiped out in Estes Park this fall.  It is just heart breaking the economic havoc the GOP shutdown is going to have on peoples lives in Colorado.

  •  Look, everyone knows that national parks (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Rolfyboy6, BlackSheep1

    are a slap in the face of the philosophy of the ownership society to begin with. And still those people hitched their wagons to the socialistic enterprise, selling sandwiches, tent stakes, etc. to the freeloaders. So I'm sorry if it hurts their feelings to be collateral damage from the slimdown, but freedom isn't free, you know.

    And don't be surprised when you hear some beltway rich f___ saying pretty much that (except for the part about tent stakes, of which they are blissfully unaware).

    "Think of something to make the ridiculous look ridiculous." -- Molly Ivins

    by dumpster on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 02:05:48 PM PDT

  •  Nevada is 90% BLM land... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Wonder what the shutdown means for us out here in the Silver State...

  •  Not just National Parks (3+ / 0-)

    It's also national wildlife refuges. While some of these aren't open to the public, many of them are premiere places with lots of birders, photographers, sight-seers, etc. visiting them (places like Santa Ana NWR and Laguna Atacosa NWR in south Texas, or Bosque del Apache NWR in New Mexico as some prime examples).

    This will really hit many rural communities hard.

    •  Yes, our Civil War Battlefields are shut down (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lanshark, BlackSheep1

      The 150th anniversary of the Battles for Chattanooga is going on right now.  

      150 years ago, after the loss at Chickamauga, the Union retreated into Chattanooga where it was cut-off from supplies.  General Grant relieved Rosencranz of command and through a series of battles (Orchard Knob, Lookout Mountain, Wauthatchie Pike and Missionary Ridge) the Union prevailed.  These Battles took place from the beginning of the retreat into Chattanooga September 20, 1863 until November 25, 1863.  

      So much for the re-enactors.  

      Nothing fixes a thing so intensely in the memory as the wish to forget it. - Michel de Montaigne

      by Sandy on Signal on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 02:26:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  But since Hannity is not losing anything... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    ...all is well and there are no consequences from the shutdown!

  •  October 1st was the opening day (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dvalkure, BlackSheep1

    of the fall fishing season on the Cape Hatteras National Seashore, but those fisherman are now out of luck, along with the communities on Hatteras Island.

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